[AINews] DeepSeek v3: 671B finegrained MoE trained for $5.5m USD of compute on 15T tokens • ButtondownTwitterTwitter
Chapters
AI Twitter Recap
AI Reddit Recap
High level Discord summaries
Enhancements and Innovations in AI Models
Various Discord Channel Discussions
Challenges and Insights with Aider
Optimizing GPU Utilization with LLM Studio
Coding Datasets for Instruction-Tuning, Personal Thesis Experience, AI Conversations
DeepSeek V3 Advancements and Comparisons
Earning Opportunities and Strategies
Efficient AI Methods and Strategies
Unstructured RAG, LangChain, Unstructured IO, Athina AI, LlamaIndex Discussion
Discussion Highlights on Various Topics
AI Twitter Recap
AI Twitter Recap
- Claude 3.5 Sonnet provided AI Twitter recaps from the best of 4 runs.
AI Model Developments and Releases
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DeepSeek-V3 Launch and Performance: @deepseek_ai and @reach_vb announced the release of DeepSeek-V3, featuring 671B MoE parameters and trained on 14.8T tokens. This model outperforms GPT-4o and Claude Sonnet-3.5 in various benchmarks.
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Compute Efficiency and Cost-Effectiveness: @scaling01 highlighted that DeepSeek-V3 was trained using only 2.788M H800 GPU hours, significantly reducing costs compared to models like Llama 3 which used 30.8M GPU-hours.
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Deployment and Accessibility: @DeepLearningAI and @reach_vb shared updates on deploying DeepSeek-V3 through platforms like Hugging Face, emphasizing its open-source availability and API compatibility.
AI Research Techniques and Benchmarks
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OREO and NLRL Innovations: @TheTuringPost discussed the OREO method and Natural Language Reinforcement Learning (NLRL), showcasing their effectiveness in multi-step reasoning and agent control tasks.
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Chain-of-Thought Reasoning Without Prompting: @denny_zhou introduced a breakthrough in Chain-of-Thought (CoT) reasoning by fine-tuning models to reason intrinsically without relying on task-specific prompts, significantly enhancing model reasoning capabilities.
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Benchmark Performance: @francoisfleuret and @TheTuringPost reported that new techniques like Multi-Token Prediction (MTP) and Chain-of-Knowledge consistently outperform existing benchmarks in areas such as math problem-solving and agent control.
Open Source AI vs Proprietary AI
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Competitive Edge of Open-Source Models: @scaling01 emphasized that DeepSeek-V3 now matches or exceeds proprietary models like GPT-4o and Claude Sonnet-3.5, advocating for the sustainability and innovation driven by open-source AI.
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Licensing and Accessibility: @deepseek_ai highlighted that DeepSeek-V3 is open-source and licensed for commercial use, making it a liberal alternative to closed models and promoting wider accessibility for developers and enterprises.
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Economic Implications: @reach_vb and @DeepLearningAI discussed the economic implications of open-source models.
AI Reddit Recap
Theme 1: DeepSeek V3 Release:
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DeepSeek-V3 Officially Released: DeepSeek has released DeepSeek-V3, featuring a Mixture of Experts (MoE) architecture with 671B total parameters and 37B activated parameters, outperforming other open-source models and proprietary models like GPT-4o and Claude-3.5-Sonnet.
- The model shows significant improvements in various tasks with a 3x increase in token generation speed.
- DeepSeek-V3's FP8 Training: It marks the first in validating FP8 training on a large-scale model.
- Community and Open Source Dynamics: Distinction between open-source and free software, with comments noting that DeepSeek-V3's release targets the local community on r/localllama.
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Deepseek V3 Chat version weights uploaded to Huggingface: Hardware requirements for running DeepSeek V3, lively debate about open-source models outperforming proprietary ones, and challenges of handling such a large model discussed.
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Sonnet3.5 vs v3: Comparison between Sonnet 3.5 and DeepSeek V3, highlighting DeepSeek V3's significant outperformance in benchmarks, cost-effectiveness, and availability.
Theme 2: Cost Efficiency of DeepSeek V3 vs Competition
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PSA - Deepseek v3 outperforms Sonnet at 53x cheaper pricing (API rates): Comparison between Deepseek V3 and Sonnet in terms of API rates, training cost, context window, and performance.
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Deepseek V3 benchmarks are a reminder that Qwen 2.5 72B is the real king: DeepSeek V3 benchmarks against other models, emphasis on cost-efficiency, model comparison, and discussion on open weights vs. open source.
Theme 3: FP8 Training Breakthrough in DeepSeek V3
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Deepseek V3 is officially released (code, paper, benchmark results): Introduction of DeepSeek V3 with FP8 training capabilities, performance comparison with Claude Sonnet 3.5, technical requirements, costs, and innovative features and licensing concerns discussed.
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Wow this maybe probably best open source model?: DeepSeek-V3's exceptional performance highlighted, discussion on inference challenges, model comparison, and evaluation of open weights vs. open source approach.
High level Discord summaries
The section dives into various Discord communities focusing on technology, AI models, and community discussions. Highlights include Windsurf's industry breakthroughs, deep discussions on coding models such as DeepSeek V3 and Llama 3.2, and advancements in AI tools like ProductPAPI and OpenRouter. Users share their experiences with different models, API issues, and challenges faced while using various AI technologies.
Enhancements and Innovations in AI Models
A newly introduced AI model from India incorporates ideas from Yann LeCun to improve human-like reasoning and ethics, sparking discussions among members who expressed optimism about its implications. The model is poised to reshape model training and showcase the power of applied AI. In a different development, the Chinese group DeepSeek introduced a 685B-parameter model called DeepSeek V3, claiming significant cost savings in training. ChatGPT is rumored to soon access all past chats, potentially changing how users rely on conversational context. A YouTube video demonstrated advanced reinforcement learning approaches for refining large language models' logic without extra overhead. Anduril Industries revealed a collaboration with OpenAI to merge their models with defense systems, raising fresh debates on ethical and practical boundaries in the military domain. Additionally, upcoming events like the AI Engineer Summit in 2025 and keynotes on agents in 2024 are slated to provide further insights and discussions in the field of AI.
Various Discord Channel Discussions
This section covers discussions from multiple Discord channels, including feedback on AI-generated code in GPT4All, building TTS datasets in LAION Discord, ML ops frameworks discussions in MLOps@Chipro Discord, DeepSeek V3 and Cursor IDE performance comparisons, and Aider v0.70.0 release details. Users highlighted issues in Windsurf's performance and Cascade Base model, challenges with remote hosts integration and UI design struggles, Learners also expressed concerns regarding token limitations in Cursor IDE and applauded DeepSeek V3's efficiency.
Challenges and Insights with Aider
Challenges with Aider alias configurations:
- Users faced difficulties when attempting to set up model aliases in the .env file, which did not work as expected.
- Some suggested using a YML config file instead, which can handle multiple aliases more effectively.
DeepSeek Chat V3 Performance Insights:
- Participants noted that DeepSeek Chat V3 is performing well on the polyglot leaderboard and may replace Sonnet as a go-to model due to its pricing.
- One user recommended using DeepSeek V3 alongside Gemini exp 1206, claiming it offered good results for feature development.
Understanding repo-map functionality:
- A user inquired about the repo-map feature, which updates slowly for large repositories when switched to specific models.
- Another user suggested using the --map-refresh manual command to streamline updates instead of automatic refresh.
Best Model Combinations in Architect Mode:
- Discussion on the optimal model combinations for Aider leaned towards using O1 or Gemini, mentioning DeepSeek as a viable option.
- Feedback indicated that users experienced some struggles with complex tasks, like creating specific function presets, alongside ease of use and cost-efficiency.
Managing API keys for security:
- A new user asked about security implications of committing Aider config files without API keys included.
- It was advised to separate API keys in a .env file to keep sensitive information local, while the config file could be included in the repository.
Optimizing GPU Utilization with LLM Studio
Users in this section discussed concerns about poor GPU utilization while running LLM Studio on a multi-GPU setup, with GPUs only reaching around 30% usage. Experts advised that increasing VRAM capacity doesn't necessarily improve inference speed due to memory latency, suggesting better performance with NVLink.
Coding Datasets for Instruction-Tuning, Personal Thesis Experience, AI Conversations
Inquiry about Sprint Mode Timing:
A member eagerly asked about the availability of 'sprint mode,' expressing curiosity and urgency. An image was attached, but no details about its content were provided.
Seeking Coding Datasets for LLMs:
A member requested coding datasets suitable for instruction-tuning large language models, particularly focusing on Python solutions.
Personal Training Experience Shared:
A member shared insights on training a model for their Bachelor's thesis, downplaying the significance of the experience.
SFT DPO Evaluation during Training:
Members inquired about evaluating models during training and the availability of examples in the documentation to support this functionality.
Issues Fine-tuning Llama 3.2 with Text-only Dataset:
Members discussed challenges faced when fine-tuning Llama 3.2 using a text-only dataset and the need to disable vision layers.
Running Trained Models on CPU:
Members sought help in loading GPU-trained models on CPU-only machines and were advised to quantize the model into GGUF format.
Challenges with GGUF Conversion:
Discussion revolved around deteriorating model performance during the conversion of a fine-tuned Llama 3.2 model to GGUF format.
Weird Responses from Local Model:
A member reported receiving strange responses from a tuned Mistral model when running it locally and sought assistance in diagnosing the cause and improving response quality.
DeepSeek V3 Advancements and Comparisons
The section discusses the launch of DeepSeek V3, highlighting its advancements such as being 3x faster than V2, trained on 14.8 trillion tokens, and comparison with models like GPT-4o. It introduces Multi-Token Prediction technique and new Reward Model Techniques. The debate on critique mechanisms and integration of exogenous information is also explored. Several tweets and links related to DeepSeek V3 are mentioned.
Earning Opportunities and Strategies
The section discusses various messages in different GPU-related categories where individuals offer opportunities to earn $100k within 72 hours with a profit-sharing model. They encourage interested parties to connect via Telegram for further details. The members promoting these schemes emphasize the urgency and direct contact for interested individuals to learn more about these quick money-making opportunities. The tone suggests a focus on spreading wealth globally and engaging with individuals who are genuinely interested in these earning strategies.
Efficient AI Methods and Strategies
In this section, various innovative AI methods and strategies were discussed. These include operations that are highly efficient, utilizing significantly less energy and memory compared to traditional methods. Additionally, there were discussions on sampling techniques in random walks and comparisons between batch and mini-batch gradient techniques. Members also shared insights on schemes to earn $100k within 72 hours through profit sharing models and networking on platforms like Telegram. These discussions highlighted a range of cutting-edge approaches and opportunities in the AI field.
Unstructured RAG, LangChain, Unstructured IO, Athina AI, LlamaIndex Discussion
The discussion in this section revolves around the highlights and benefits of Unstructured RAG in tackling challenges with unstructured data like images and tables. It emphasizes the role of Unstructured IO in organizing raw data for retrieval-augmented generation. Traditional RAG systems are noted to struggle with unstructured data formats, but tools like Unstructured aid in converting data for improved RAG pipeline performance. The section also outlines an implementation strategy for Unstructured RAG involving libraries like FAISS and LLM integration, detailing the use of custom prompts for accurate responses. Evaluation methods with Athina AI are proposed to validate and refine the RAG system. Additionally, a clarification is provided on the relevance of LlamaIndex and its inclusion in the discussion group, aiming to benefit the group's understanding of efficient RAG implementation.
Discussion Highlights on Various Topics
- Modular Stack Kernel inquiry prompts discussion on kernel optimization within modular implementations.
- Comparison of MAX and XLA, focusing on compile times with implications for performance optimizations.
- Troubleshooting loading issues with PyN8N site, suggesting solutions like checking connections and disabling ad blockers.
- Discussion on leveraging DSpy support through DSLModel for enhanced functionality.
- Note on PyN8N client enabling AI-assisted node and workflow creation.
- Various discussions on Jekyll scripts, typing.TypedDict, pydantic for output fields design, and glossary generation methodologies.
- Updates on certificate distribution timeline, missing certificate declaration form, and inquiries about upcoming courses within the Berkeley MOOC community.
- Narratives on Open Interpreter API capabilities, OCR functionality concerns, desktop version release queries, AI engineer collaborations, and QvQ integration discussions.
- Member inquiries on AI-generated code copying methods, chat text UI functionalities, and usability of new templates within the GPT4All community.
- TTS dataset creation advice-seeking and Whisper tool application suggestions within the LAION community.
- Member exploration of ML ops frameworks in HPC environments, preferences for lightweight and self-hosted solutions, and discussions on Guild AI stability and server management challenges within the MLOps @Chipro community.
FAQ
Q: What is the significance of DeepSeek-V3 in the AI community?
A: DeepSeek-V3 is a highly advanced AI model with 671B MoE parameters, trained on 14.8T tokens, outperforming models like GPT-4o and Claude Sonnet-3.5 in various benchmarks, showcasing advancements in AI research and development.
Q: How does DeepSeek-V3 compare to proprietary models in terms of cost and performance?
A: DeepSeek-V3 offers a cost-effective alternative compared to proprietary models like Llama 3, being trained using only 2.788M GPU hours as opposed to models using 30.8M GPU-hours, while still outperforming them in benchmarks.
Q: What are some key features of DeepSeek-V3 that contribute to its success?
A: DeepSeek-V3 features a Mixture of Experts (MoE) architecture, 671B total parameters, and 37B activated parameters. It also showcases a significant increase in token generation speed, FP8 training validation on a large-scale model, and a focus on community engagement and open-source dynamics.
Q: How does the OREO method and NLRL contribute to advancements in AI research?
A: The OREO method and Natural Language Reinforcement Learning (NLRL) techniques are effective in multi-step reasoning and agent control tasks, showcasing advancements in AI research techniques and algorithms.
Q: What are the economic implications of open-source AI models like DeepSeek-V3?
A: Open-source AI models like DeepSeek-V3 offer sustainability, innovation, and wider accessibility for developers and enterprises by providing cost-effective alternatives to proprietary models, promoting collaboration, and driving advancements in the AI field.
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